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but I think the Forced Labour Conven- tion covers this matter, and it has already been assented to by the British Government. I will read a passage from the Anti-Slavery Reporter. On page 112 it deals with the specific question in these words:
"It is announced in the White Paper issued in April-"
that is, April of this year-
"that the British Government proposes to proceed with the ratification of the Draft Convention concerning forced and compul- sory labour adopted at the International Labour Conference in Geneva in June, 1930. The recommendations guarding against in- direct compulsory labour and for the regula- tion of compulsory labour, where recourse is had to it, are also to be adopted by the British Government. By that Con- vention-"
this is what we are going to adopt- "States which ratify undertake
to sup press the use of forced or compulsory labour in all its forms '."
I do not say that they are all equally bad, but they may tend to become synonymous with slavery. The Report continues:
"Forced Labour for private enterprise is barred absolutely ;-
for a long time that was allowed if the private enterprise was for public utility purposes-
is
"forced Labour for public purposes allowed for five years, but it must not be used unless efforts to obtain voluntary labour at local rates and on local conditions have failed, but any labour requisitioned must be paid for at local free labour rates, and in no case can labourers be called upon for more than sixty days in a year, in- cluding journey time."
I think Lord Lugard will think that it is satisfactory that the Government have announced their intention of proceeding with the ratification of this Draft Con- vention. It is the latest Convention on the point, and I think it sufficiently covers all the matters to which he referred.
I agree with him, and it is the basis of the position of the present Govern- ment, that none of these resolutions, Conventions or suggestions can be relied on unless you have an effective system of seeing that they are maintained in continual operation. I entirely agree that this ought to be done either by a bureau or by some organisation of an effective character, with headquarters at
Lord Parmoor.
Slavery.
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Geneva. Power to see that these matters are properly dealt with is essential. 1 think your Lordships will find, after Viscount Cecil has addressed you-I leave this matter with him-that the Government have not been backward. They have pressed it to the utmost, and I hope that we may be successful either at the next or at some future Assembly. I am afraid I have addressed you at some length, but I want to express once more my gratitude to the noble Earl, Lord Buxton for bringing this matter forward.
VISCOUNT CECIL OF CHELWOOD: My Lords, my noble friend who has just sat down has asked me to say a word to your Lordships about the question of Liberia. After what my noble friend Lord Lugard has said, there is really ex- ceedingly little to add to his account of that incident-or rather more than an incident. The only addition that I should venture to make to his history of the matter is to recall to your Lordships that it was and it is fair that this should be remembered at the instance of the Liberian Government that the Christy Commission was sent out to Liberia to inquire. They asked the League of Nations to appoint that Commission, and it was because of their request that the League did appoint it; and after it had reported it was due to the request of the Liberian Government for further assist- ance from the League that the League was able to send out the Commission which is now engaged in making inquiry into the matter to see what administra- tive reforms are really necessary in order to put a stop to the very terrible state of things that was demonstrated by the Christy Commission.
That Commission has gone out. It con- sists of a French Chairman, a Dutch member and a British member. Its pro- ceedings were a little delayed because yellow fever is endemic in Liberia and it was felt to be really too dangerous for them to go out until some preliminary sanitary measures had been taken to diminish the incidence of yellow fever in that part of the world. That was done by a British medical officer who went out at the request of the Liberian Govern- ment, and he has carried out some provi- sional measures which I hope will render the proceedings of the Commission itself reasonably safe. They are engaged in the Report. I had the honour of being
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Slavery.
Slavery.
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[ 22 JULY 1931 introduced to their chairman M. Brunot, The most rev. Primate told us that who has a very fine colonial record, and there are still 5,000,000 slaves in the I am quite satisfied that he will do every- world, and although I
suppose the thing that is possible to make a complete estimate is a little in dispute I do not and satisfactory job of this reform. think the reality falls very far short of that number. That is a very serious state of things, and what I think one has to realise is that this system exists almost entirely because of tradition. Its economic value is exceedingly small. It is much less than that, for at any rate in Abyssinia the existence of slavery has undoubtedly been economically disas- trous. I think my noble friend said that the whole of the districts in the south- west of the country have been almost de- populated in consequence of the existence of slavery, and it is, therefore, almost entirely traditional, and very strong tradition on the subject is backed up very often by a very powerful local opinion.
Undoubtedly the point which Lord Lugard alluded to is the real difficulty-- namely, the financial situation. As he knows, Liberian finances are of a very exiguous character and they seem to have been mortgaged, if I understand the posi- tion rightly, to this Firestone Company. At any rate the real question is as to what financial arrangements can be made, and we hope, with the advice and assist- ance of the United States, to make sufficient finances available to carry out whatever reforms turn out to be neces- sary. Until we have the Report of the Commission it is not possible for us to say exactly what will be required. I hope that the position is satisfactory, so far as it can be satisfactory at the present time, and I venture to remind your Lord- ships that this is a case where un- doubtedly it was the action of a private inquirer, bringing to light a very serious state of things and thereby bringing to bear upon the local authorities the public opinion of the civilised world, which in- duced the whole of the action that has taken place.
I should not have ventured to trouble your Lordship, as the matter has now been very fully discussed, except that I do very much desire to have the oppor- tunity of supporting to the utmost of my power the suggestion made by Lord Buxton that the British Government should continue in their efforts, because that is really what he wants, to support an improved machinery in this matter in the League of Nations. I do feel that that is a matter of the very first im portance. We have got a Draft Con- vention. No criticism has been made of the definition of slavery in that Con- vention, and there are the strongest possible words put into the second clause providing for the abolition of slavery. It has been stated that that has been ratified by some forty different countries, and, therefore, as far as agreement can do anything, we have taken, I think, all the steps necessary for the abolition of slavery. And yet we have regretfully to admit that slavery is still-I was going to say rampant, but still something very like rampant.
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You see it in the case constantly re- ferred to of mui-tsai in China, where apparently there is a deep feeling among large sections of the population in favour of this power of adoption of little girls, leading to something undistinguishable from slavery. In Abyssinia, undoubtedly, the great difficulty with which the Em- peror has to contend is that a very strong feeling in favour of slavery exists among the feudal chiefs, who consider it part of their power and dignity to have so many slaves. So, if one went into history, one would find the existence of slavery in the southern states of America was based upon a strong local feeling. That is the great obstacle which we have against this reform-persistent tradition, particularly in those countries where tradition is very powerful. Then, of course, there is the complication of the question, the immense variety this system takes, from the forced labour we are trying to deal with by a separate Con- vention, through the system of adoption to debt slavery, to which Lord Lugard alluded. That is a complicated matter and requires to be dealt with not casually but scientifically and elaborately by properly organised machinery.
A great deal has been said as to the function of the League of Nations. I believe that the League can do a great deal, but in this matter, as in most other matters, it must be remembered that the great weapon, and almost the only weapon, which the League has at its
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